Less pokies means huge savings for Tasmanians Meg Webb on ABC Hobart

Meg Webb, Independent Member for Nelson in the Upper House talking about how much Tasmanians have saved so far because venues with poker machines in them have been forced to close their doors. It has just ticked over $20 million.                                                                          

Radio Transcript 

BREADEN: Venues with poker machines around the state have been closed due to COVID-19 but it got us thinking today about how much money has been saved since these venues closed their doors on March 23. We thought we would catch up with Independent Member for Nelson, Meg Webb, because she has been doing the maths on this – and you can check it out online on her website. Meg Webb, thanks for your time today. So you have been doing the maths. What can you tell us about when these venues shut up shop and how much Tasmanians have saved, so far?

WEBB: Well, Lucy I was really interested, I guess, to keep track really from the time that the pokies were closed down in the state across this period to see how much money we are putting into them, and therefore that is money that is available in Tassie households to be covering the other essentials that people are really needing to prioritise right now, and to be available to other Tassie businesses, actually, that are not pokies related. So what I have done is, I have calculated that based on our figures of losses from last year. Just so you know, today we have just ticked past the $20 million mark of money not spent on pokies since 23 March when the venues closed.

BREADEN: That is a whopping amount.

WEBB: That is $20 million. That is right, Lucy. It is a really high amount. Most people probably didn’t realise that, based on last year’s figures, Tasmanians spend around $470,000 per day on pokies. So that money really adds up as soon as you start to put it together across this time when it is not being spent. So far, here we are, five or six weeks later, we have got $20 million staying in Tasmanian families. And that is available, as I said, to other parts of the Tassie economy that really need all the help they can get right now.

So, I am quite pleased about that as an outcome, because I think there is two benefits to it. One is that the people who struggle with using poker machines, and have an addiction or have a problem with their use, at this time they are simply not there and available to use. So those people are having a real time of relief from that as an aspect of their lives that is causing them harm. So that is a positive in my mind. And for their families, too. And then the other positive is that that money that would normally be poured into those machines, into that bottomless pit of those machines, is now available for other parts of our economy and to look after our families. So it is a good news story in the face of what we know is a really challenging time for a lot of Tassie businesses.

BREADEN: Is there any evidence, though, that this money – this $20 million – is being redirected to online betting?

WEBB: Well, look, I think that is a really valid question. And people’s minds often turn to that. But something to be aware of is that what we know is that Tasmanians, and Australians broadly, spend an enormous amount on poker machines. It is our most harmful form of gambling. Nationally it is about $13.5 billion a year that is spent on poker machines. Online gambling is about a tenth of that.

So pokies losses outweigh online gambling by about ten times. So at the moment, we are saving all the pokies losses. Online gambling, it would appear, has increased during this lockdown time. I think that is often due to there has been a real uptick in advertising of online gambling and retargeting with that. So we have seen an uptick, and that is concerning. We don’t know, at this point, until people sort of dig into it a bit more, whether that uptick has come from people who are already using online gambling or whether it is from new users of online gambling. What we do know from research is that people who have a problem with poker machines, or might be addicted to poker machines, don’t readily transfer to other forms of gambling. That is very clearly demonstrated in previous research. So we wouldn’t necessarily expect that lots of people who had previously used poker machines would be switching.

Now, as I said, it is concerning. Any increase in online gambling is concerning. We should absolutely be looking at what we can do to protect people from that and to alleviate that harm. I think greater restrictions on the advertising would be a great place for the federal government to start, because it is regulated through the federal government. But even with an uptick on that side of things, it doesn’t even come close to what we are actually saving in terms of pokies losses right now. So it is still a good news story. Although we should direct our attention to that online gambling harm and think about ways we could do something better there, too.

BREADEN: On that, Meg Webb, if people are being forced to have a break from the pokies, do you think the government, state or federally, should be putting more emphasis on helping people break this habit permanently?

WEBB: I think is an ideal time, Lucy, for us to be turning our minds to how we can best utilise this opportunity. In the first instance, to offer people greater support. There is probably for some people a bit of stress involved in not having access to the poker machines. So this is an ideal time to reach out, very proactively. Not to sit back and wait until people with a problem come to us, but to actually go out there and more proactively offer assistance to people and their families. What we know that in typical circumstances, only about one in ten people with a gambling problem come forward looking for help. So now we want to reach out to those other nine in ten people and try and bring them in to a service or a support system that can help them move away from that issue.

BREADEN: Do you know if that is being done?

WEBB: I beg your pardon?

BREADEN: Do you know if that is being done? If anyone is reaching out to people who may be struggling with the loss of pokies?

WEBB: I believe that there is extra broad funding being put into social services in the social services space. I would like to see some of that very specifically directed more to gambling support programs – and particularly for people with pokies issues. Because we know in Tassie, of the people who come to our gambling support services, eighty per cent of them have pokies as their main issue. So they are our target group right now. And we should be putting out a lot more public messaging. We could have really clear public health messaging reaching out to people and asking them very proactively to come forward and get some help. We have got services there to support you. Please come and get in touch with us and find a way forward. Use this time to make a change.

The other thing we should do is we are looking at how we can support the businesses that currently rely on poker machines as part of their business model. We are simply looking at ways that we can pivot at this point and assist those businesses to think about moving away from that business model, too.

Now, we know our hospitality and tourism industry are really suffering right now. They are really badly affected. We know they will need to rebuild. But a vast majority of those two industries have nothing to do with pokies, and they will be rebuilding themselves after this shutdown period. For those, a small handful that do have pokies, we should actually be thinking, great, let’s use this opportunity to find a way to support those businesses to reshape themselves and perhaps step away from a business model that relies on causing harm in our community. Businesses should be really contributing to our community and be very proactive and I guess really positive in the way they deal with community rather than cause harm, so I think there are ways we could look at that, too.

BREADEN: It is great to see the businesses that have pivoted, and they are hopefully thriving during this time. Meg Webb, we will leave it there. Thanks for your time today.

WEBB: Thanks for your time, Lucy. Much appreciated.

BREADEN: Meg Webb, Independent Member for Nelson in the Upper House talking about how much Tasmanians have saved so far because venues with poker machines in them have been forced to close their doors. It has just ticked over $20 million.